DreamHost:Village pump/Archive

This is an archive of outdated Village Pump discussions.

Version

This important and usefull wiki is running the painfully out of date version 1.4.0 of MediaWiki. It is insecure, doesn't work well in Konqueror, my browser of choice, is painful to use and makes Dreamhost.com look like a VW without wheels. Please please with a cherry on top upgrade MediaWiki. :-) Rogerhc 14:31, 11 Oct 2006 (PDT)

Agreed. It may fix the random logout problems and broken thumbnails. --Neurophyre 11:16, 18 Oct 2006 (PDT)

I've already asked about this. For some completely unfathomable reason, updating the version is very low on the list of DreamHost priorities. -- Scjessey 11:45, 18 Oct 2006 (PDT)

I've been bugging all the techs I can find about this for a couple weeks; unfortunately, the response I've gotten has been pretty similar to the one Scjessey's received. I even submitted a suggestion in the panel, but every time I bring up the issue with my pet DreamHost techie (I feed him every day!), he tells me that it's on the list, but not near the top. I don't know who we need to poke to get this done, but given that the wiki is now the front line in DreamHost tech support, it needs to be well-maintained. And upgrading is so (relatively) simple! (Rawr!) It'll probably be a little more tricky, since it's presently all the way back at 1.4.0, but it's got to be done sometime, and waiting isn't helping. --Emufarmers 17:13, 19 Oct 2006 (PDT)

To what ever degree another voice raised in concern over the sad state of upkeep of the MediaWiki software that is running this wiki might help encourage DH to upgrade this beast, I'm happy to add join in encouraging, exhorting, cajoling, pleading, begging, etc. DH to update this software. Rlparker 04:50, 13 Dec 2006 (PST)

I will attempt to sneak in an upgrade the wiki version soon. Wish me luck. --Sabrejack 13:01, 13 Dec 2006 (PST)

If you should succeed, your name shall forever be honored and revered! You shall tread the hallowed halls of DreamHostdom as a shining beacon of success against adversity! -- Scjessey 13:18, 13 Dec 2006 (PST)

Thanks for the booster, but so far MediaWiki: 1, Pete: 0. The upgrade path from 1.4 to 1.8 has some details to it, but should be doable.. just not as quick as I thought it would be. --Sabrejack 13:21, 13 Dec 2006 (PST)

Update: MediaWiki 1.8 requires PHP5. Our PHP version on this server is PHP4. The upgrade cannot be made at this time. I believe the wiki is the only PHP application on these servers and so I will inquire about upgrading PHP. --Sabrejack 15:17, 13 Dec 2006 (PST)

Thank you for the update. It's becoming a bit of a French farce, isn't it? Upgrading from PHP4 to PHP5 should be a trivial matter (it is for customers). -- Scjessey 17:20, 13 Dec 2006 (PST)

In this particular case, we were using mod_php4 and of course we do not have a mod_php5 package built. We don't believe PHP5-CGI would be suited for the amount of traffic our wiki gets. We are looking into PHP5-FastCGI, however, as a solution. I'll keep you posted. --Sabrejack 18:17, 13 Dec 2006 (PST)

It seems like we've opened-up a big can of wiki is running on a dedicated server (which seems like a good idea), perhaps it is worth trying to go the mod_php5 route? On the other hand, if PHP5 running as a CGI application is good enough for all the customers, shouldn't it be good enough for this wiki? -- Scjessey 06:08, 14 Dec 2006 (PST)

Interesting observation there, Simon. Is it also possible that Sabrejack's feeling that PHP5-CGI wouldn't handle this wiki ought to be a taken as a "heads up" to the rest of us as to what we should reasonably expect in the way of performance when using later versions of MediaWIki with that configuration . I've felt the performance of MediaWiki under PHP-CGI in my "test" installations has been "less than stellar", and I think this kind of confirms that. Fortunately, there are *lots* of wiki products that are less demanding than MediaWIki for customers to use, though none of *those* being offered as a "one-click install" tends to "endorse" MediaWIki's use on DH. Kinda of a catch-22 there - the one that is "offered" may not be the "best" one to use. Rlparker 07:46, 14 Dec 2006 (PST)

PHP as CGI will simply never be as high performance as mod_php, regardless of the application. There is an overhead required as the system allocates resources for a new shell/environment via suexec, and then the memory allocation and startup time of PHP itself. Depending on the setup and the hardware, this can be an order of magnitude slower. Due to administrative issues we stopped offering mod_php to our shared customers, but PHP-FastCGI is an alternative they can use if they need that performance level restored. --Sabrejack 10:51, 14 Dec 2006 (PST)

Thanks for adding that information, Pete! Upon re-reading my remarks above, I realized they might have come across a little "negative", and that was not really they way I meant it. Your remarks much more accurately describe the situation; I *don't* know at what traffic level MediaWiki starts to really "bog down" under PHP-CGI, and it *is* a fine application (and probably the most "standard" and well known wiki now offered). Thanks for looking into all this toward getting this installation upgraded, and good luck with your research into attempting it with PHP-FastCGI! --Rlparker 14:15, 14 Dec 2006 (PST)

No problem at all. I can say our customers have not collectively raised any complaints about MediaWiki under PHP5-CGI (compare with Gallery, which definitely has speed issues.) I expect PHP5-FastCGI in particular to be an acceptable solution and we shouldn't even notice it's there. Will post updates as available. --Sabrejack 14:32, 14 Dec 2006 (PST)

Save

On this wiki.dreamhost.com I have to click 'Save page' up to three separate times for it to save. It seems to do 'Show preview' instead. It has been this way too long. Please upgrade to current MediaWiki version and see if this can be fixed. Thanks. I'd love to help it grow but it needs to work well. --Rogerhc 14:38, 11 Oct 2006 (PDT)

I'm experiencing the same problem. I don't know if it's browser related though. Using Opera 9.02 myself.

--Balaamsmiracle 15:21, 3 Nov 2006 (PST)

This is a known issue and we believe it's related to anti-fraud behavior on MediaWiki's part in response to our load balancer, since the wiki is load-balanced and hosted across multiple machines. Any suggestions would be welcome. --Sabrejack 18:36, 3 Nov 2006 (PST)

Well, one solution could be to host the wiki on one single machine, so without load balancing. Another idea is to forget my first idea and copy (not move) the wiki and its DB to another machine for parallel testing and upgrade the wiki to see if that solves this problem.

I see upgrading the wiki as crucial, especially since many (security) fixes have been applied to Mediawiki's code and it may well be that newer versions have been fixed to play nice with load balancing. (http://www.automatapedia.com is also hosted by DH, uses mediawiki 1.5.5 and does not have this save problem)

--Balaamsmiracle 20:37, 3 Nov 2006 (PST)

Multi-page Issues

why does it not let me modify pages some of the time? i get stuck on an endless preview page :( DarbyWong 00:38, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

Ditto that. Maybe it's an anti-spam, anti-deface measure? I find when I think it's time to save, it's helpful to go have a favorite beverage, check the weather, go for a walk, and hit "Save page" again and again all the while. Eventually it works. -- Pseudomonad 06:00, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

I find it happens intermittently with everything (including sysop-related stuff). When I'm doing eleventy-billion page-renames because of vandalism, it adds ages to the amount of time it takes to fix everything. -- Scjessey 07:20, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

I've noticed that too. Bugs the heck out of me, but usually after 5 or so clicks it will save. It's happening right now as I try to save this comment. --Jacobmp92 13:19, 1 Jun 2006 (PDT)

I was told that it's because we have several different load-balancing machines that serve the wiki pages on a round-robin basis and that mediawiki is rejecting your post because of perceived "funny business" since the referrals don't line up properly. I don't know how correct this is, since browsers, computers, and ISPs cache IP addresses.. and other people here at DreamHost report that they've never experienced this problem. It's not a priority for our admins, I might have to attempt to discern and solve the problem myself. Maybe we should compare systems? I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.3 on WinXP SP2 with Windows Firewall turned on, and firefox listed as an exception. I'm behind a NAT (e.g. like a broadband router.) I also experienced this problem from FF 1503 under Linux with no firewall (behind the same NAT though.) I have cookies set to allow only for the originating site but I think that's the FF default.

-- Sabrejack 13:30, 1 Jun 2006 (PDT)

I have an identical setup, excepting the Windows Firewall. I have that disabled in favor of a McAfee alternative. I don't have this problem with the Wikipedia, so it must be something peculiar to the DreamHost setup. It isn't that big a deal, to be honest. -- Scjessey 13:50, 1 Jun 2006 (PDT)

No way, it drives me BATTY. I don't have this problem with Wikipedia either, just DreamHost. Hmm. I'll have to see what it is. -- Sabrejack 14:14, 1 Jun 2006 (PDT)

I am on Firefox 1.5.0.3 on Ubuntu Linux (6.06). Using Firestarter firewall & behind a wireless router; accepting all cookies. --Jacobmp92 15:15, 1 Jun 2006 (PDT)

That's usually a problem with the browser sessions and/or cookies. It could be that MediaWiki hasn't been setup properly (especially if you have any rewrite rules and such). Dori | Talk 17:37, 1 Jun 2006 (PDT)

I'd say it's a problem with the setup here, since it works fine on Wikipedia and other MediaWiki sites. --Jacobmp92 18:16, 1 Jun 2006 (PDT)